never in all my days did i think i would allow chelsia to be a guest blogger. never.
although we know her by a different name now (possibly her real name), chelsia is the person that scammed kim and flavio in 2008. she used me to get to them. she used them. she lied to kim and flavio’s children …and she made kim and flavio lie to their children about bringing a new baby sister home. it’s not okay. i thought i had totally forgiven this person for hurting my friends so dearly, but as this pot has been stirred a little, i think i have a little more work to do.
posting about T.A. has been an interesting experience. i have had the joint outrage that i was expecting from most of my readers. i have had people tell me that they were upset with me because they thought i just needed drama in my life. i have had people tell me that i lost the Spirit. i have had people tell me that it was my fault we got scammed because (to them) the red flags were clear from the beginning. (tell me, how much earlier would you have liked me to expose her? four days isn’t fast enough? lol.) i have had people tell me that it was our fault because we didn’t have a caseworker involved (um, i live with one and he is part of the reason we identified her so quickly). i have been called unethical. i have had people belittle me and one another in the comments regarding vernacular. it’s been a wild ride …and very entertaining. we have gotten some great laughs out of it. i have not allowed myself to become offended because next to being scammed, mean words or criticism or whatever is just laughable. i will say that it’s incredible what people will do to each other over the internet, isn’t it?
it’s also been very productive. i have found SEVEN different families that T.A. has scammed (the point of the posts), informed them all and also informed T.A.’s family through help from my blog readers. love you guys.
one thing is certain, these kinds of scams don’t really bring out the best in people. i think it would do us all good to cut everyone a little slack, give them the benefit of the doubt and believe in people. there is still good in the world.
and that is where this post is coming from.
after i posted about T.A., i got an email from chelsia explaining her side of things. i wondered if she was just sending it because she wasn’t the “sole star scammer” in r lives any more or if any word of it was really the truth. but, i am giving her the benefit of the doubt here because she has some really interesting points to share and things to look for.
(and chelsia, we know when you look at r blogs because we have your IP address.)
this guest post is written by an adoption scammer
posted with permission from chelsia and from kim. i would never post this without kim’s permission.
Lindsey, I’m not someone that you are very fond of. You know me as Chelsia. I hurt your friend deeply in 2008.
I emailed Kim about a year ago to apologize for the heartache that I brought to her and her family. I never heard back from her — which I anticipated — I wouldn’t have wanted to exchange words with me either.
I look at your blogs often and was elated to see that both Kim & Flavio and you & Josh have added to your families. I’m so happy that Gavin was finally able to be sealed to your little family.
I’ll get to the point of this email because I’m sure that I’m the last person on earth that you want to “shoot the breeze” with.
Reading your “dirty rotten adoption scammer” post stirred up a lot of emotions in me and has left me with a heavy heart. Reading the comments that were left on your post prompted me to email you. I’m not trying to rationalize why someone does something so cruel and horrible, but rather let you know how someone could do something so cruel and horrible.
As you know, I was someone that brought that kind of pain into the lives of unsuspecting innocent people. It is something that I’m not proud of. The sad thing is that I can’t even remember how many different names I used to wiggle my way into the lives of couples hoping to adopt. If I started writing down the names that I do remember, we would all be mortified.
There were several times I tried to stop. One couple even contacted the local authorities. You would have thought that a scare that big would have easily turned me back to the straight and narrow. For a time it worked, but I didn’t succeed long-term. I was only scratching the surface in my efforts of change. In the end, anyone participating in such evil activities has issues that are far beyond surface scratching.
Not often did I get “caught” in my games. I’m not sure why exactly, but I started getting sloppy. Was I hoping to get caught? Was I bored from it all? Had it become so exhausting trying to change my story and remember my lies? I don’t know why and don’t know that I will ever have an answer to that question. When you and Kim posted about your experience with me, I was angry. You were both people that I longed to have a friendship with, but knew it could never happen because everything about our friendship was based on lies.
I was mentally too tired to start over with another couple, which is normally what I would have done. Then I read a comment from Flavio that made me step back and truly think about the person I had become. In the midst of his hurt and anger, he said, “Our feelings for you were honest and sincere. That was actually good; we got to exercise love and care.” Most of my life I have never felt the love and care that I have desired and longed for. I can’t speak for everyone, but what I was looking for was love and care.
Each time I made the decision to start communicating with an adoptive couple, intellectually I knew it would have to end and from experience I knew that it would bring heartache. Unfortunately, I didn’t focus on the heartache of the adoptive couple but rather the heartache that my broken heart would feel. I would be alone, again.
I am the last child in a slew of siblings. I am the “mistake” that came along after my parents had become grandparents. I heard over and over that I was the reason that my nieces and nephews didn’t have the type of grandparents they deserved because they had to raise me. I am the sister that was hurt by a brother and when I announced at the breakfast table what he had been doing, he told my parents that I must have been dreaming and it was never mentioned again. I am the child that was shuffled from place to place so my parents could travel. I am the child that tried to be perfect because she hated seeing her mom cry when her children made bad choices. I am the girl that hated herself so much that she would meet men online to feel a moment of love and care. I could go on and on with reasons that love and care haven’t existed in my world but it doesn’t justify the hurt that I have brought to others.
Unfortunately, a couple hoping to adopt longs so much for a child that it is easy for people like me to wiggle their way into their lives. It is often times a daily connection. The adoptive couples try not to “rock the boat” in fears of scaring this person away. This person becomes one of the most important people in their lives. This person is getting a need filled, albeit inappropriately.
I’ve made a lot of mistakes in my life and I’m not proud them. I’ve hurt a lot of people and have left scars that I cannot remove. It has been a long hard road to get beneath the surface scratching. The sad thing is that a girl next door can be involved in this type of deceitfulness and you will most likely never know.
I was born and raised in the Church. I come from a good — but dysfunctional — family. I am the aunt that all of the nieces and nephews love to pieces. I’m the funny one. I have my own home. I have a good job. Beneath it all, I was a lonely & depressed and craved attention.
My advice to adoptive couples is to not be afraid to “rock the boat” if things don’t feel right especially if she has promised you the world.
If the person you are talking to is real then she should have no problem meeting with your agency, following through with plans, giving her doctor’s information, sending her ultrasound pictures with her name included or sending you random pictures showing you her belly.
You’ll hear the, “I don’t have a camera.” Most girls have a cell phone with a camera and if they don’t their friends do. It’s easy. It’s simple.
Take notes, the more involved it becomes the harder it is to remember the lies. For example, ask her what the cousin’s name was that she was telling you about a week earlier because chances are she won’t remember.
The biggest is the excuses, especially when it happens time after time after time after time. Set boundaries. Someone seeking attention wants constant contact. It is a high for her if she can get you to not go to church because she is having a hard time and needs to talk.
Thankfully I finally saw a doctor and got on medication. I started counseling with a professional. I have worked incredibly hard to get on the straight and narrow with my feet firmly planted. Although they do not know a lot of the specifics, I have a sister and brother-in-law that have been a great support to me. I have been working on being a better human being. I was disfellowshipped during my repentance process. As difficult as it was it was a growing time for me. My membership has since been reinstated and I currently serve in the Stake Primary with a calling in my ward as well.
I’m sorry that I hurt your friend. I’m sorry that you were recently hurt. I think of Kim often and the hurt that I caused her. I am sad that I got to know the two of you through my deceit and lies. I hope one day you can forgive me.
So glad to see she's getting help. Lindsey, you are an amazing adoption advocate. It's not always pretty, definitely not glamorous, and not for the faint of heart which is what you and your birthmothers are giving Heart and love. I am proud to know you and count you as a friend. enjoy your vacay!
I hope that my mentioning that I always referred e-mails to my caseworker didn't make you think I was critizing you in anyway. I didn't intend it that way at all. I think you're wonderful and I'm a big fan of everything you do to promote adoption and support all of us trying to adopt. I meant it more as advice for other prospective parents afraid of getting scammed. I had my profile on adoptions.com and they had a cool tool that let you look for scammer names to see if someone had been contacting various couples. We got contacted by one of them and it was nice to know that it was just a scam. Anyway, I just wanted you to know I would never criticize you. I think you're great.
Our adoption scammer had no problem stealing and sending us someone else's ultrasound photos and photos of someone else's pregnant belly. She was a little over the top on that. I would tell other adoptive couples to be cautious of anyone who hasn't met with a case worker that your case worker can verify.
Interesting insight. I want to believe what she says…but there is that part of me (probably the lasting scars of our own scam) that makes me wonder if this is more attention getting deceit. I hope she is being real and if she is I wish her the best as she moves past her mistakes.
So glad you are bringing this ugly topic out in the open …it will help many.
Thanks for sharing this. I think it is important to be educated on all levels. I will give her the benefit of the doubt and accept that she is truly sorry. I know I have done some pretty stupid things. And yes what she did was stupid.
All I can say is WOW!
This has all been very eye opening for me as we begin our journey to adopt again.
I am glad that you posted this. Honestly, I felt more sad for T.A. then I felt for those scammed. It's a terrible thing they "scammed", but I feel a lot of sympathy now seeing the other side of the picture.
At the same time, I'm so grateful we were never scammed before we met T, that would be so hard!
My husband and I just started the adoption process through LDSFS. I have been looking up adoption blogs and found yours, I hope you don't mind. It is so nice to be able to hear how other people feel about infertility and adoption. We were blessed with a little girl three years ago, and for unknown reasons, can't get pregnant again. I appreciate all the info about what you've been through. I am so sorry you had to go through all this! Sounds like you guys are strong, though. Anyway, I hope you don't mind if I follow your blog. Also, my best friend in High School was a Wheatley from Southern Idaho-maybe a cousin? Thanks for all this info-it really helps people like me learn more about what we are getting into. THANK YOU!-Tara
Maybe I'm just a cynic but I don't believe her. Her letter isn't very apologetic, it's about look at me I was the victim I was a product of dysfunction, it's my parents fault, adoptive parent fault for not checking, but look at how wonderful I am now.
I know I should give her the benefit of the doubt but I just can't.
Maybe I need to let go of my hurts but she still sounds like she's trying to manipulate more people.
I agree,,,a con artist loves nothing more then to con. It is just another “game” to them. It would take years and years for one to accept the help they need. Con’s such as ones who can play off being pg etc……….are good with words and are good at what they do, that is why they are called cons.
Kim spent one whole night in San Francisco on the phone with you. Having to ignore all the fun and all the people who wanted to be with her.
I even took time out to talk to you. You not only lied to Kim you lied to me. And to know now you were getting off on it? A high at our expense?
I come from a lifetime of lies and manipulation and while I'd like to think of myself being as forgiving and gracious as Kim and Linds, I'm just not there yet.
*and this is where I end*
Wow. I believe it takes a lot of courage to share what you have shared on your blog r house.
I also think it took Chelsia a lot of courage to publicly admit fault, and apologize. I have been hurt by other people in my life, and I know I have hurt people with some of the choices I have made. Now, they weren't choices that completely scarred others, but I'm sure I have caused others to hurt. Thank goodness we have an Atonement. I think it is easier to accept that the Atonement can help other people when they haven't deeply hurt us and our dear friends. But, I know there is still an Atonement for those who have hurt us and our dear friends, and hopefully as members of a church that believes in repentance and a loving Heavenly Father, and a Savior, who is not a hard task-master, we can be loving and offer a hand of fellowship to those who deserve it the least.
Regardless if she is sorry or not, which I believe she is, I hope we can offer our best to her.
Dear Chelsia,
You know the thing you lost the most was your credibility. I read this and shake my head because honestly I don't believe a word of it. Whether or not its true only effects you. The rest of the world and the people you hurt they can move on because they have their integrity and their inner peace of being a good person. You will dwell on it forever, it will never leave you . No matter how hard you try to "explain" your side of the story it will always be empty. There is no other side to a story like that.
There is no excuse for what you did other than pure narcisistic selfishness. Until you face that and stop blaming your parents, your family, everyone else you will never be able to really change or heal.
My family life growing up…not so great. I went and created the family I wanted. You always have a choice.
The lie of lying is that it can replace truth. Truth will always win. Even if you had never been caught the human spirit can not be happy when its living in lies.
If you truly have gotten help, get more. You are still not taking responsibility for the choices YOU made.
I'm going to agree with the others that said it better than I could – I grew up in an extremely dysfunctional family. I have had awful things happen to me, that I would never wish on anyone. But I don't scam people. Nor would I ever. I wouldn't ever do something to justify my own hurt – or worse, try to get attention from others so that I can hurt them too. I don't believe any thing that you say.
Lindsey, I admit that I don't always read through all the comments to your posts – but I am glad you have a sense of humor (and are thick-skinned enough) to deal with the less-than-gracious ones. Bravo to you for talking about the problems and troubles that can arise in adoption. Especially for those folks beginning the process for the first time, your blog is a crash course in adoption reality.
About Chelsia's guest blog: you know, I just don't know. Nuff said.
You enjoy the beach for me! It's slushy, cold and awful here. :>
Lindsey, I admire your bravery for posting this. It takes a lot of bravery to look at the other side, and even more bravery to forgive – or even attempt to forgive. Thank goodness for the atonement. It helps us be who we should, whether we need help forgiving others or changing ourselves. I think it's also important to point out that we can forgive others before they are worthy of it, before they even ask for it. You are an example of that, and of our Savior. I thank you for that. You are really doing His work.
It's helpful to see the other perspective of scams. It's very enlightening. While I agree that everything has to be taken with a grain of salt, I can sense the truth and pain in Chelsia's story. I do believe that attention starvation and manipulation and ego-centric thinking that is a pattern in these scams is the result of mental illness, not just pain and disappointment in childhood. I honestly hope she has changed her life the way she said she has and is finding that the Savior can heal all things.
Thanks again, Lindsey. This couldn't have been easy for you.
I'm ticked off.
I really am. And I'm generally very understanding and give people the benefit of the doubt. But this Chelsia girl is ticking me off. And I don't believe parts of this story either– Kim was scammed in 2008, and since then Chelsia has been disfellowshipped, already reinstated, and called to the Stake Primary?? Please. That is extremely hard to believe coming from an "ex-liar".
YOU ("Chelsia") are not a victim. You fail to recognize that not only have you hurt the innocent and vulnerable people you scammed, but you hurt REAL birthmoms. I am one. It hurts me when I go to FSA conferences and I encounter the fear that new prospective adoptive couples have of birthmoms. It literally hurts me and is the hardest thing for me about being an adoption advocate. I try to counter that fear but people like YOU are the reason that fear is there. Have you ever thought about that??
I don't know why but this "poor me, I'm all better now so be my friend" email has struck a nerve with me.
Wow. I feel sick to my stomach. This did not make me feel sorry for her one single bit. It just made me want to puke.
Mrs. R, you are amazing to be so forgiving! I am impressed beyond words. I guess I'm not as forgiving as I thought I was because this just annoys me beyond words!
And I could say a lot of mean things (they honestly went through my mind) but I will follow your example and stop typing now! haha
it makes me sad that someone would want to do this to another person. there really is no excuse for it. my heart breaks a little for all of those adoptive parents who are struggling with adoption, and now have one more thing to have to worry about.
wow sounds like we all could brush up on our forgiveness skills. And maybe move on.
Matthew 6:14-15
14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
Typical mormon women not practicing what they preach. Nothing unusual here.
I think anyone that manipulates people the way that these scammers do have serious mental health issues. I'm very happy there are posts that expose them, and educates others about adoption scams.
I think anyone that manipulates people the way that these scammers do have serious mental health issues. I'm very happy there are posts that expose them, and educates others about adoption scams.
you people calling other people out on not forgiving need to re-read the scripture, "judge not least ye be judged." come on. giving people the beneft of the doubt applies to you too. applies to EVERYONE!
and janaya bloom …i would be happy to lose you as a reader if you are going to make comments about my religion like that.
and FYI, sweetheart, not everyone that reads this blog is a) female and b) LDS.
go spread your ick somewhere else. i don't need that kind of nast on my blog and neither do my self-rightous hypcritcal mormon women readers.
i haven't been offended by any of the comments on this post or the ones talked about in the beginning of this post …until now.
boo! hiss!
(kristin you mostdef were not offensive–you had a great idea!)
Excuse your JanyaBloom, but I am not mormon… As well, Have you read lindsey's or kim's blog? Do you want to talk about forgiving mormon women!?!??
wow. girl. i can't believe I even talked to you on the phone.you just cant even STAND being out of the limelight for even one second can you. you are transparent in your absolute relentless need to be a taboo scandleous person and in persons faces, and most of all, you want and need to be pitied. wow. I have had almost the same experiences as you and DO NOT BEHAVE THE WAY YOU DO. move on. leave everyone in piece and GET SOME HELP AND A REAL LIFE!!!!!
Reading this post has been pretty interesting for me. Not only is it interesting to see the other side of adoption scamming, but it's also interesting to see some of the mistakes I made earlier in life so clearly laid out on the screen in front of me. While I never scammed anyone, and never would, I definitely told more than my fair share of lies, and hurt many people. I had a mental condition. I didn't know it at the time. I didn't understand the overwhelming need to say those things, or to pretend that certain things happened that didn't.
But I do know that it is so wonderful to be forgiven, especially by those that you have hurt the most.
There have been a lot of angry comments on here. I can understand them. This is a very serious matter. But so is forgiveness.
As a birth mom, I can't even begin to imagine doing this to anyone. I can't even begin to express the hurt that it causes me. It feels like scammers are just spitting in my face. Placing was one of the hardest things I've ever had to do in my life.
But as someone who grew up with a great family, but a dad who is depressed and a mom who has other mental issues, and as someone with a history of abuse (of almost all kinds) from other people in my life, I can understand the need for attention, love and affection, etc.
Maybe I just haven't learned to stop trusting people yet, (I really don't think that's it) but I truly believe that the Spirit has testified to me of the truthfulness of Chelsia's words. After all, that is the job of the Holy Ghost – testifying of truth. I truly hope that she can move on from this. Once she forgives herself and moves on, she will be able to find true happiness.
I hope that the people who have been hurt so badly will also find peace and forgiveness and be able to move on.
That's my two cents…
Oh, and Lindsey, you are so great! I don't know many people as forgiving and kind as you are. Thanks for all you do for everyone in the adoption world.
as a potential birth mother who is looking for a family to place with, I am saddened that someone would do this, but I'm more saddened at the response and lack of forgiveness that most of you show. I wouldn't place my baby with anyone who couldn't forgive something as Trivial ( in the grand scheme of life)as this. I guess I'm more sensitive because I am in the repentance process and seeing these people blatantly ignore the atonement and what it means hurts me more. I guess I wonder if what I'm doing is in vain and if I'll always be the villain or if people will forgive ME for the hurt and grief I've caused.
It is sad, we can't always know what makes people act the way they do. Thanks for sharing both sides of the story. We have been trying to adopt for over a year now and have been lucky enough to not be scammed, but we are sure to be careful too.
Thanks,
Christa
hoping to adopt, http://www.kevinandchristablog.blogspot.com
Dear anonymous potential birthmother, I hope you realize that placing a real baby with a family is very different than pretending to be a light at the end of a couple's very dark tunnel. What I mean is, after dealing with infertility the dreams of becoming parents can be diminshed. To have that hope re-lit by someone brings such a flood of real emotion and happiness, that well, it's hard to explain. I still cry when I think about that very moment 5 years ago when we were told we would get to be parents. It's hard to protect your heart once you feel that hope again. So, for those who've been scammed or are still going through the dark days of waiting and hoping…reading about 'chelsia' can lead to that pain that unless experienced first hand, would be hard to imagine. (I never experienced being scammed thankfully.) I know reading the comments feels harsh, but please know that there are real, raw emotions floating around and on the internet, without confrontation it's easy to put out what you want to…you don't have to keep it in for the sake of others feelings…does that make sense?
Placing your baby is one of the most courageous acts of love. People won't see you as a villian…especially 'R House' readers. Here birthmothers are raised on to a pedistal. =) I hope you find the couple that will bring you comfort in all that you're feeling. I'm sorry you're going through so much and that this may steer you away. Just know that adoption is intangeled with a lot of crazy emotions, a lack of control, and a whole lot of need for patience and understanding.
Good luck! Love ya!
pedistool…that's what I meant.
and the patience and understanding line…that involves everyone, not just the potential birthmother or potential adoptive couple…it's the families and friends from both sides. Adoption is an amazing thing, nothing short of a miracle. =)
thanks lindsey and kim for posting such a sensitive letter – i'm sure it's not easy.
this girl is obviously mentally and emotionally ill and it really isn't my place to determine if her apologies are sincere, but i do hope that the things that she said to look for if you think you might be scammed will help potential adoptive parents and spare them from getting scammed.
i can't imagine how adoptive parents feel who have been scammed – because it really does hurt everyone who is even remotely involved – even aunts, uncles and cousins. both of you (kim & lindsey) are so brave to be open about this and share your experiences.
thanks lindsey and kim for posting such a sensitive letter – i'm sure it's not easy.
this girl is obviously mentally and emotionally ill and it really isn't my place to determine if her apologies are sincere, but i do hope that the things that she said to look for if you think you might be scammed will help potential adoptive parents and spare them from getting scammed.
i can't imagine how adoptive parents feel who have been scammed – because it really does hurt everyone who is even remotely involved – even aunts, uncles and cousins. both of you (kim & lindsey) are so brave to be open about this and share your experiences.
This is a very confusing and emotional topic in the adoption world- one that is not often discussed.
Thank you, mrs. r, for helping us, as adoptive couples, learn how to better protect our hearts and ourselves.
Wow. When I read Chelsia's post I was eager to see the responses … they were not what I imagined at all. I guess it's because I'm a Dude or whatever … but a) I don't see why everyone has to go all anonymous on this girl and criticize her, who are you to say whether she's being genuine or not? (props to those that shared what they felt, critical or not, without a need to hide)and b) whether she was genuine or not, can't people see that she is giving good advice on how to avoid people like her? (which is one of the reasons why Linds decided to post this … to help people, I truly don't think she would have posted this if it were to just get Chelsia more attention). Anyways, like I said, maybe I just don't get it, but to criticize her and her priesthood leaders who obviously felt she has taken the necessary steps to regain fellowship just doesn't seem right. I sure hope that my Heavenly Father doesn't hold the things I've repented for against me come judgment day. Lastly, my sis n law rocks! I love that she takes her experiences (both good and bad) and uses them to help others.
I think some people have the definition of forgiveness wrong.
Being forgiving doesn't mean you have to believe everything someone says, that's gullible, not forgiving.
People are entitled to their opinions and it seems the people who are jumping the most to point fingers about forgiveness are the ones that seem the most critical in my opinion.
I agree with Lisa. You don't have to believe her to forgive her. And even if they haven't forgiven, who says what the timeline for forgiveness should be. People need time to heal and be ready to forgive.
Having witnessed a close friend of mine experience a similar scam, (quite possibly by the same person) and having contact with the scammer myself and seeing first hand how manipulative this person can be, it does make this apology letter very difficult to believe. All I can do is hope and pray that it is sincere.
I think [forgiveness] may be the greatest virtue on earth, and certainly the most needed. There is so much of meann ess and abuse, of intolerance and hatred. There is so great a need for repentance and forgiveness. It is the great principle emphasized in all of scripture, both ancient and modern. Somehow forgiveness, with love and tolerance, accomplishes miracles that can happen in no other way." forgiveness, with love and tolerance, accomplishes miracles that can happen in no other way."–Gordon B. Hinckley, "Forgiveness," Ensign, Nov. 2005,
Not only our eternal salvation
depends upon our willingness and capacity to forgive wrongs committed against us. Our joy and satisfaction in this life, and our true freedom, depend upon our doing so. When Christ bade us turn the cloak to him who takes our coat, was it to be brute, the thief? Or was it to relieve the one brute, the thief? Or was it to relieve the one aggrieved of the destructive burden that resentment and anger lay upon us?"–Marion D. Hanks,
Closely related to our own obligation to repent is the generosity of letting others do the same…In this we participate in the very essence of the Atonement of Jesus Christ…We don't want God to remember our sins, so there is something fundamentally wrong in our relentlessly trying to remember others' sins…It is one of those ironies of godhood that in order to find peace, the offended as well as the offender must engage the principle of forgiveness." offender must engage the principle of forgiveness." offender must engage the principle of forgiveness." forgiveness."–Jeffrey R. Holland, "The Peaceable Things of the Kingdom", Ensign, Nov. 1996, 82
Each of us is under a divinely spoken obligation to reach out with pardon and mercy and to forgive one another. There is a great and to forgive one another. There is a great need for this Christlike attribute in our families, in our marriages, in our wards and stakes, in our communities, and in our nations. We will receive the joy of forgiveness in our own lives when we are willing to extend that joy freely to others. Lip service is not enough. We need to purge our hearts and minds of feelings and thoughts of bitterness and let the light and the love of Christ enter in. As a result, the Spirit of the Lord will fill our souls with the joy accompanying divine peace of conscience." the Lord will fill our souls with the joy accompanying divine peace of conscience."–Elder Dieter F. Uchtdorf
Thank you Chelsea for sharing your recent happenings and thoughts.
It may be true that we don't know the reason for Chelsea's actions, however we actually don't understand the reasoning for the majority of our behaviors.
W e all have agency, what matter s the most in life is how we reac t to what happens to us as an individual. Christ definitely was one up on us being God's only begotten Son, but still He was judged for not doing anything wrong and He forgave them. At one time or another we will all ask for forgiveness, it's hard to ask for something when it isn't given in return.
It doesn't matter why Chelsea did what she did, she did it. It isn't our place to decide her punishment or how long she should've been disfellowshipped.
She can this experience and be refined by it and help others.
Repentance is sincerely apologizing and not doing it again. I'm sure she will feel crappy enough the rest of her life, she as well as the rest of us do not need to have our faces rubbed over and over again into our past.
The past has already happened and can't be changed, the future is a blank canvas as well as the present. Leave the past in the past.
I am rolling my eyes so hard core right now, they just might roll out of my head. Give me a freaking break.
Obviously some people have never known real pathological liars.
haha. these comments are hysterical.
just like i said in the post, this topic does not bring out the best in people. thanks for proving me right everyone. lol.
whether it be anger, hypocrisy (telling someone else that they need to forgive is a form of hypocrisy also. it's called judging–let's not forget that), judging, being unforgiving, etc.–this topic just does not bring out the best in people.
i say we close the comments. what do you think? let's move on to brighter topics and stop the bickering, anger and all the holier-than-thou comments.
we have much better things to discuss …like the children in haiti. (look for a series of posts coming soon.)
thanks to everyone for their comments, kind or not, rational or not, forgiving of both chelsia and those that struggle with forgiving her or not.
special thanks to chelsia. were the circumstances of our relationship different, i am pretty sure we could have been dear friends. thanks for sharing parts of your REAL self. your REAL self is way more interesting and lovable than the one you created. i like the REAL you the best.
besos.